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Author Topic: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server  (Read 3520 times)

Offline chaos1986

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Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« on: February 27, 2010, 09:17:24 PM »
I play many ttt servers and i constantly see people coming onto them and saying "why was i banned from ice cave ttt server". to top this when i see the server in my server list 80% of the time theres 0 players. When i have played every single time i have played i've seen admins shouting at other players, then banning them without warning, no kicks, no "do that again and ur banned" just straight out banned. This last time i played it was 5 or 6 players in 1 day (today). If this continues people won't come back or play on the server.

If the server continues to function in this way then it will die. I have been in the GMod community, Counter-Strike Source, Original Counter-Strike, Quake 3 and Quake 1 community's since they were all started and ALL servers that function this way fail, especially when there are other servers running the same mod.

My advice is to remove most of the server admins (and give them VIP status or something to keep them happy) and only have a few in-house admins that know what they are doing and preferably over the age of 16.

Offline NedStar

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 10:18:13 PM »
Quote from: "chaos1986"
I play many ttt servers and i constantly see people coming onto them and saying "why was i banned from ice cave ttt server".

I usually hear complaints of people on our server complaining about other servers. We are pretty strict when it comes to playing TTT. We are more then happy to help you if you are new. We always ask why you did it or warn if the person made a minor offence or was simply confused.
We've all played TTT and thereby know that confusion happens quite easily which might result in mistakes. We do however have a zero policy when it comes down to players not responding to our questions. When an admin asks you why you killed someone or why, we expect a response. If you choose to ignore us then we can only draw the logical conclusion that you are: A. AFK B. Avoiding possible punishment and hope to have it go away by ignoring said questions.

Since one can't be sure if someone is AFK, we will wait until the person in question returns and ask again or if the player is walking about the entire time during the questioning and doesn't care to answer back.

Quote from: "chaos1986"
When i have played every single time i have played i've seen admins shouting at other players.

We don't have many admins that shout. I know Metabie can shout too much at times which isn't exactly the best thing to do. I agree with you on that. Atrevir can sometimes go a bit mad as well but usually stays fine.

Quote from: "chaos1986"
then banning them without warning, no kicks, no "do that again and ur banned" just straight out banned.

I'm not quite sure where you base this upon but we do warn where applicable. However as I've already stated above, if the person is simply ignoring admins. The only logical punishment would be a ban as the person in question doesn't seem capable of listening to the admin. Why warn when someone doesn't listen?


Quote from: "chaos1986"
This last time i played it was 5 or 6 players in 1 day (today)

I assume you mean our ban quota? Well we do have a pretty high ban quote and I assure you that most if not all are well deserved.

Quote from: "chaos1986"
If the server continues to function in this way then it will die. I have been in the GMod community, Counter-Strike Source, Original Counter-Strike, Quake 3 and Quake 1 community's since they were all started and ALL servers that function this way fail, especially when there are other servers running the same mod.

Thank you for the advice, but we've been around for around 5 to 6 years now. I'm pretty sure we got a strong community that supports us and likes us for who we are and what we do.
I'm aware that banning someone will lose you a possible player in the long term. However when a player is ruining the game atmosphere the only logical option would be a ban to preserve the long term players.
I think it's safe to say that our regulars like our server for the judgement we give upon those who break the rules. We aren't treating anyone unfair, we are treating them as possible new comers who might be new to the game. There is however a limit to how kind we can be. If I told someone the basic principles of the game and showed them the way to F1 (Help) and they still RDM afterwards, there's very little for me to do besides give them a temp ban and hope they learn and come back afterwards.

When our server was under DDoS attack some of our regulars started playing on other servers. The story I heard quite often when our server was back that they hated it on other servers for they simply let RDM happen and do not act. We are a pretty laid back community and don't mind having fun, but we also care for the experience we provide to our players. We want to give them a solid experience where they can always report an issue on the forums and then have it looked at later by an admin who then goes on about to look into the log files to try and make a picture of what happened.
Admins in-game also have several tools to find out who shot who and who did what. We use all this information to make an outcome and make sure nobody is punished unfair.

In your case, you've shot Makezz for absolutely no reason. Makezz who is a long term respected player said you've done it to him before. I then proceeded to the log files to find you killing Makezz with a headshot.
Afterwards I ask you kindly why you killed Makezz with some delay due to you apparently having alt tabbed. When you came back you said you thought he was a traitor and claimed the end of it. You were not responding to our several requests of what made Makezz a suspect as "I thought he was a traitor" is a common RDM excuse that we do not accept.

Any respectable TTT player will always have a reason as to why he shot a person, its also the reason why a good TTT player never gets banned where as the dodgy ones get picked out quite easily. All of the above combined resulted in you being banned.


Wiiking: If I ran into him in the aftermath of the inevitable all-consuming nuclear war, I would just shoot him to avoid further drama.

Offline chaos1986

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 10:25:24 PM »
Well i'm still pretty new to the gamemode, i played sassilization, flood and zombie survival a lot. I thought he was the traitor as i saw him shoot someone, i don't have a mic and often can't hear what others are saying as i have a very slow connection.

Wouldn't it be better to code a system to avoid people RDMing, such as if 1 innocent kills another they die, or they can't play the next round and have to wait it out, infact that second one would mean that players would never rdm

Offline chaosandwalls PHI

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 10:49:35 PM »
That system wouldnt work, because in the course of a normal game,innocents often end up killing other innocents because a good traitor can make someone else look like the enemy.
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Offline NedStar

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 10:51:49 PM »
Quote from: "chaosandwalls PHI"
That system wouldnt work, because in the course of a normal game,innocents often end up killing other innocents because a good traitor can make someone else look like the enemy.

This kinda explains why said system wouldn't work. Also some innocents look so insanely suspicious or shoot you first that you kill em out of self defence etc.
Regarding lag, AFAIK there's nothing that makes chat lag this much. I wasn't using my voice in your case, I always use either just chat or both.


Wiiking: If I ran into him in the aftermath of the inevitable all-consuming nuclear war, I would just shoot him to avoid further drama.

Offline Andaai

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 12:11:19 AM »
who does this wallaper think he is, saying what you should do with your own server.

Offline Xaymar

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 06:22:35 PM »
The server is fine the way it is. If people cant read the motd(by only clicking only "OK") its their fault.
BTW: Some admins are only asking why [PERSON] did that over voice. Not over chat. Not everyone can use voice or hear voice(voice_enable 0, i use that very often, when my connection starts being crappy again).
Also, sometimes the people on the server wont stfu, so that the questioned person cant hear the admin and he gets banned and he doesnt know why.(People seriously cant stfu the most of the time im playing:/ At least they die by c4, because i couldnt warn them)

Edit: at the guy below me: wtf? totally gone to the wrong site Oo. Delete please, was suppposed to be on radnations tttforum...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:17:12 PM by Xaymar »

Offline lolomgwtfNL

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 06:35:38 PM »
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Epic bump bro
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Offline Xaymar

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 07:19:36 PM »
Wrong Forums/Site. Im sorry(Supposed to be in Radnation. must have misclicked on the wrong tab. Delete both posts please.

Edit: *Hides in a corner*

Offline Teddyrawr

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 01:05:25 PM »
I do agree with this. Maybe ban people if they rdm 10 people then leave or anything like that. When i want to play ice cave,,, it is usually empty, and am forced to play on a different server. Yesterday, somebody rdmed an afk, fly banned straight away, No warning, he at LEAST deserved a warning. All admins are too strick on this server except from maybe Ned himself. One of the harshed banners (Atr) gets annoyed by these people (and rightly so) but I dont think Ive ever seen anybody get a warning! And when i was new to the server, I rdmed a few people, they said why, + when i say, im new to this Mod. I GET BANNED straight away. I think ALL admins should give 1 warning, followed by a kick, followed by a ban. (Not a perm)
Unless, they know the rules and are purposly RDMing. Thank you :)
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Offline NedStar

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 02:20:24 PM »
Instant banning is indeed something that should not happen unless in some rare events where banning is in everyone's best interest.
Warning itself is always preferred, sometimes however people will RDM regardless of being warned prior to that.
I however completely agree that a new person should not be instantly banned. I've seen quite a lot of new TTT players, some just need a few pointers where as others refuse to read the objectives and keep on rdming. In the latter case, they get banned.

Afk shooting is extremely frustrating but is not instant ban worthy without questioning. I have however banned a few for shooting me for standing still for 3 seconds while talking to someone over steam and then run of without checking my body. Regardless of them thinking you are AFK, if you shoot someone who is standing still for a mere 10 sec and not identify the body, you are obviously grieving or an utter idiot. Pretty sure grieving is the case.

I am unsure what you mean by "yesterday" as nobody was banned by Fly yesterday. I have looked up Fly's most recent ban which is a perm ban on Gunblade for the reason of "RDM traitor within 10 seconds"
I'd say that Gunblade falls under my grieving category as explained above. I'm pretty sure if you were a traitor and just opened steam chat to respond to a call and ended up being shot for standing still for 10 seconds that you'd appreciate if the guy would be removed.
I don't know the exact details regarding Gunblade and I agree that perm bans can be a bit overkill at times. Ultimately it can be pretty hard to decide a just ban duration, not everyone deserves a week ban, where as others should have deserved another chance.

What I usually find working well is giving every ban a second "review". Where I simply check my own bans and lower/higher duration. Certain rage emotions when losing a traitor round or having banned several in a row will make you more eager to give long term bans rather then reasonable ones.


Wiiking: If I ran into him in the aftermath of the inevitable all-consuming nuclear war, I would just shoot him to avoid further drama.

Offline steel

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 04:48:28 PM »
Wow this is a thread load of weirdness right here lol

I like the rules of this server, it's why I'm still here. Yes the server does empty from time to time but 90% of the time you only need to join and wait a few minutes before more people start joining.

Most other TTT servers allow too much RDMing and the reason they are always full is because they aren't very well adminned and they're just full of idiots.

Some of the admins on The Ice Cave server can be a bit strict at times but they are all quite fair. Anyone who feels they were banned unjustly is welcome to come to the forums and Ned and others WILL look at the case for you and unban you if needed. I play alot and I only ever see people get banned without warning if they are obviously rdming (Killing groups of people with a huge for no reason ect) or they rdm and leave straight away to try and avoid being punished.

But like you said, you are new to the game mode so you probably are basing your opinions on what you have seen on other servers with different game modes. Yes banning alot of people on other games like CS:S and stuff will cause a server to become unpopular unless it has a good supporting community. But with TTT you need to get rid of the idiots as often as possible to keep the game running smoothly for everyone else. The fact TIC do this and are fair about and have a solid community means that I don't think we have to worry about the server going downhill anytime soon.

Go and play on other servers and then come back to TIC, you will see how much better it is to have strict admins over idiotic admins.

Steel.

Offline Teddyrawr

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2010, 12:10:35 PM »
TBH steel, For a test, I rdmed 2 people on the server and made up an excuse.
He was very strict with me and told me not to do it again, and he purposly slayed my on my TRAITOR round, so that i would learn my lesson, And i think this is a much fairer rule than banning without warning. Also he said, if you do it again, its a week ban. Which is fair enough.

Love teddy :D   :scared
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Offline Darkfrost

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2010, 02:03:29 PM »
Way to be a dick teddy :C
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Offline Datastream

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Re: Everyone getting banned all the time = dead server
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2010, 02:14:26 PM »
Just my thought. And he's happy about it.